ING to downgrade Netbank accounts
Posted October 4th, 2007 by Shawn Parr
Well, some of my fears regarding this whole Netbank shutdown are starting to come through. I now have confirmation from ING that they will be removing features from accounts when they have fully taken them over.
Some of the most convenient features of a Netbank account were:
With these features I could pay all of my bills online without ever having to write a check, put stamps on envelopes, etc. And it was completely free. I could also go into my favorite OFX capable financial software (Quicken, MS Money, Moneydance, etc) and create these bill pay items in the software, which would then upload them to the bank. Without this combination of features one must duplicate a bit of work. If I go to the website and create a bill pay item, I would then have to manually enter it into my financial software, or just wait until the checks cleared and download the items. Of course for anyone actually tracking their finances that second option is a no go.
With my setup of Netbank and Moneydance I could enter a bill pay item into Moneydance which would then upload it to Netbank where it would appear in the Bill Pay transactions just like I had created it on the website. It already has been deducted from my virtual 'check register' in the software, and the 'check,' whether real or virtual, gets sent out on time.
Here is the email I received from ING sales:
Hi Shawn,
On behalf of ING DIRECT we want to welcome you on board! I do have some bad news however, you will not be able to hook up to quicken to do transactions. You will be able to download your transaction data though.
At this time we do not offer paper checks with the Electric Orange. You can send paper checks with our bill pay if you like.
Thank you,
DanielleING DIRECT USA
Member FDIC
Equal Housing Lender
Once you have used these features to manage your finances, you really get a taste of what this whole internet and computer thing was supposed to be about. These features are especially critical for any bank without a physical presence, i.e. an online only bank. The disturbing part of this new is that ING is also, at least within the U. S., an online only bank. I should say an under-featured online bank.
In addition to this, ING's current checking solution, Electric Orange, does not allow you to keep a paper checkbook at all. You have to do any actual checking with the account via the website. This is really inconvenient for some things like when the grade school your child attends requires money and they only give you a two day turnaround for it.
It is truly a sad time for those who had, and truly used, Netbank accounts.
Note for clarity: As pointed out in the comments below, ING does have online bill pay. They just do not allow direct OFX connection from financial software. As a matter of fact, online bill pay is the only method you have to 'write a check' from your Electric Orange account as they do not allow paper checks to be used directly by their customers, only via their website services.
Also no Foreign Wires!
Another limitation I just found out: ING Direct will not receive any foreign wire transfers. They said they only do business within the US.
I have multiple personal and business accounts with NetBank and do business with people overseas (Western Europe, Mexico, Canada) and now I can't get paid! This is a real problem.
I can't understand how a bank, in the 21st century, can wall itself off from the world like that, especially when its parent company is not based in the US.
Are you saying there is no more online bill pay? it doesn't seem like they're going to take that away.
There will still be online
There will still be online bill pay via the website, just not via direct connect from your financial software. As a matter of fact, this is the only way to 'write a check' with their checking account, since you can not get any physical checks for your account.
It is very weird that they will not accept foreign wire transfers as they are a much larger organization in Europe than they are in the U.S.
All in all, the more research I do, the stranger ING seems to be.
Well, yesterday's mail
Well, yesterday's mail brought a missive from ING. Now, I've been an ING customer as well as a Netbank customer. They've sent me email to induce me to open an ING account with a $25 bonus, however the fine print says new customers only.
But the mail received Friday says they will convert BOTH Netbank savings and checking accounts to ING savings accounts!! What? Where's my checking account gone?
I figured they'd convert all my billpay accounts over -- now I have to re-enter everything. And the date is Dec8th - perfect for those of us who pay 90% of our bills between the 1st and the 10th!
I'm seriously looking for somewhere else if I have to reenter all my billpay info again!
Interesting. I haven't
Interesting. I haven't gotten that mail yet.
The last I received was the message stating that we couldn't use our ATM/Debit cards as of the 23rd.
Received no mail after the foreign address cancelation notice
What a surprise, after the request to immediately cheng the account to an US address in 7 day! OTHERWISE they would close my US netbank account i never received any mail with offers, just a last statement dec. 12 07 that my account is 0 and the money go.
No checks mail or other communication after that and for me 2 months of running after MY money, what a joke with this bad customer service and incapable persons there.
Technically to it seem to be a hughe downgrade from Netbank considering the canceled services, Looking strongly for a new bank so I can leave trerrible ING behine me for good and never agin.
From Happy Netbank to pissed ING client
Netbank ING direct Lost money on my account completely
Hey, now to bad just having issues with not being able to receive intenational wires like used to be on Netbank, which really had great services.
Since INGdirect took over I had non-honoured electronicly sent ! checks (to my lawyer!) and credit card ($ LATE FEE, plus PENALTY)
I received a " nice" letter from ING to immediately have a US address on my account and they gave me a FULL ONE WEEK to do so AND have in certified by the USPS otherwise! my account would be closed. As I happened to travel in Egypt this week the account was closed without furthere notice, even though I called the customer service immediately, and setting up a US mailing address.
Now since calling nearly 1 to 2 everry week I still have not received ANY OF THE MONEY IN MAY ACCOUNT, and again i need to pay credict card, live insurance premium etc. and have not access to the money I hade in the NETbank account.
That is absolutely to oposite of the customer service I had from netbank, very dissapointed from INd direct.
That really sucks, pissed client
I think the original ING
I think the original ING concept was to be a back-end savings account linked to your other checking accounts. That way ING doesn't have to support all the various services that regular checking accounts do.
And if they only did Savings
And if they only did Savings Accounts, CDs, Money Market, etc. that would be fine. But when you create an account called a checking account that has no paper checks things have gotten out of control. At least for the people with accounts.
This is really an odd situation since they have to handle the routing and accounts for paper checks since they will mail them out as part of their online Bill Pay and Send Check options. I'm curious what the real justification is for not letting people order and keep paper checks on hand.
they're trying to keep it
they're trying to keep it all simple
Perhaps they are trying to
Perhaps they are trying to keep it simple for ING. Have you tried managing your finances with OFX direct connect and decent financial software? That is making things simple for the end user.
doubly verified
I asked in bank mail yes they DO NOT OFFER paper checking.
Dear (name)
Please be advised that ING does not offer paper checks.
For questions concerning your NetBank account, please call 1-888-256-6932 from 8 AM to 11 PM ET. To learn more about ING DIRECT, please visit ingdirect.com or give us a call at 1-866-327-4599 to speak with an Associate. For your convenience, we're available from 8 AM - 8 PM, 7 days a week.
Sincerely,
(bank dude name)
Customer Banking Associate, ING DIRECT
-----------
Will ING offer paper checking on my checking accounts once converted? Considering the time required to open a new account at a new bank - getting this information out quickly would be greatly appreciated.
I have no firm information,
I have no firm information, but just about every bit of information from ING mentions 60 days. I believe that is the amount of time they had in order to send out information to all their new customers.
I expect that account conversion will occur in the 60-90 day range from when they took over, which of course is coming up very quickly.
My solution was to open an account with PNC Bank. I have documented some of my research as well. I hope to get notice that my account is ready by tomorrow. And as you are very aware there are then transition issues, especially with bill pay items due at the beginning of the month, especially as my wife and I are paid monthly, on the last day of the month.
Since it is not clear in the full article above, I'll mention here that I talked with a rep on the phone who told me that Netbank accounts would be converted to the closest available existing ING account type. As such checking accounts will become Electric Orange accounts, hence without the paper checks.
In a USPS mail I recieved
In a USPS mail I recieved they indicated that they would process paper checks until April, I think, of next year. But they also said don't use checks after Dec. 8th and of course you won't be able to order more.
And I, too, am getting my checking accounts converted to savings accounts, what's up with that??
I also just got this mail.
I also just got this mail. Notice they specify that checks written before the 8th would be accepted until March. I guess they will check the date written on the check? If they don't see it till March it probably won't have been endorsed/processed until then and the date written on the check will probably be the only consistent way to check.
USPS Mail
I too got the letter indicating netbank checking is being converted to ing savings rather than ing electric orange (checking). When I inquired about this, they explained that ing checking has to come with overdraft protection and so they need to run credit checks on netbank folks before putting them in the checking product. It's easier to convert everyone to savings and then folks who apply for checking on their own initiative will have their credit checked. It would have been easier if they could have disentangled the OD protection from the checking and put all netbank checking customers into ing checking.
As of this date, 10/29, ING
As of this date, 10/29, ING still is stating that they have no solution for the paper check issue. How crazy can they be? Let me see, my kid needs a check to go on a fieldtrip and I am now going to go to a web site and create an online check and have it sent to a general postoffice box at the county school and hope it gets to the right person. Don't get me wrong, I love internet banking and online bill pay. Heck I was with Netbank SINCE THE BEGINNING. (Hate to see it go, but no wonder with the crappy customer service).
Fine if they want to make stupid moves I will take my $100k in deposits elsewhere.
Yeah, that is exactly what I
Yeah, that is exactly what I was thinking. Personally I've started the move to PNC Bank, and I have some information on some other banks with a lot of great tips from others in the comments.
Unfortunately we will never find another bank like Netbank, but depending on priorities we can get close. I've found that you really have to choose between APR/having interest at all or getting free Quicken/OFX connectivity. Most banks with interest, especially good interest, have fees for the OFX access.
You can go online and send a
You can go online and send a paper check payable to someone else to your mailing address. Doing this 2-3 days before I need a check helps me save both time and money. For me, It is much easier to write a check online and it saves me money since I don't need to pay for a checkbook, but I can still hand people a check as long as I know a few days a head of time.
Netbank checking accounts, watch out!!!
Got this fairly disturbing email today. With 10 years in financial service technology working on Internet banking, bill payment, and core bank processing, I've never seen such a sloppy conversion, not to mention poor communication. I predict a large number of oblivious customers getting "stranded" onthe busiest shopping day of the year:
IMPORTANT CHANGES TO NETBANK MONEY MARKET, NET VALUE INTEREST CHECKING, and SUPER VALUE INTEREST CHECKING ACCOUNTS
Effective 11/23/2007 ("Effective Date") we will no longer process ATM transfers (including withdrawals) and point of sale transactions (including online and cash-back transactions) that you initiate using an ATM or debit card that accesses a NetBank Money Market, Net Value Interest Checking, or Super Value Interest Checking Account that was acquired by ING DIRECT on September 28, 2007. This means that on or after the Effective Date your NetBank ATM and/or NetBank VISA® Check card(s) won't work.
If you have any questions, please give us a call at 1-866-327-4599. For your convenience, we're available from 8 AM - 8 PM, 7 days a week.
To ensure delivery to your inbox (not bulk or junk folders), please add saver@ingdirect.com to your address book.
Read about our industry-leading Privacy Policy.
ING DIRECT
1 South Orange Street
Wilmington DE 19801
Confirmed
I also received this. Just got around to it due to being busy this afternoon.
Very weird. They had told me that accounts would be transferred to ING accounts. This almost sounds like they are going into limbo.
Probably they will be 'offline' for a month or so while they become ING accounts. Either way it is time to get a new account either with ING or someone else!
Disturbing
I find this move really disturbing and bizarre.
They paid a premium to get our accounts. Why are they cutting off ATM, check, Visa check card access to the accounts?! Why are they not making it a breeze for us to keep our money with them?
Either their pickup of NetBank was philanthropy or they are seriously clueless.
Luckily I started the account opening process with some other banks once I realized NetBank was about to go under. I read up on ING Direct and suspected they could not be trusted.
I hope there aren't any people who depend on the old NetBank accounts for day to day stuff and aren't paying attention, as this could be extremely inconvenient.
Yeah. Luckily we have
Yeah. Luckily we have opened an account with PNC Bank which will give us the same online experience, even if we don't get the same great interest rates. In reality we didn't really make a whole lot of interest at Netbank, and convenience wins out.
When this first occured, and within two days I had full access to everything again, I was very impressed with how this was handled. Now that it is fully ING at the reigns, things seem to be getting ugly.
Ouch!!!!
I just found out for the first time via Orange's email 10-30-07 about the Netbank failure. No prior emails, no prior mailings (including none from FDIC), just that vague email... followed by a google search... followed by panic... oh well.
Just jumped to Schwab
I, too, was one of the NetBank "natives" who joined in the very beginning and had been with them for the entire run. I also didn't realize that the ING buyout was due to NB's failure until I got the infamous bank card email and did some research (leading me here). I weighed the options and went with Schwab. They do support Quicken connectivity (for free) although I'm not 100% sure if it's only downloads rather than being able to push new transactions. That's fine for me, I used to create all my bill pay stuff on the NB site and just used the Quicken connectivity to avoid having to manually enter transactions in my register. Every other aspect of Schwab seems to be identical or better to NB since their checking is currently at 4% APR and they reimburse for ATM charges. I felt better going to a bigger name than PNC since, knowing my luck, I'll pick a small unknown bank and it will close eventually too. Just an FYI for everyone looking for alternatives.
I felt the same way at
I felt the same way at first, so I did some research: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNC_Financial_Services
Turns out PNC is not small or new, so I'm not too uncomfortable anymore. They have been around since 1852, and are actually quite large when you factor in the whole operation.
So far they have the feel of a small bank though, which is interesting. I also found out that they handle the student ID's for a number of universities in Pennsylvania. A little off topic, but fun to know.
Another NetBank alternative.
FYI - Yesterday I just opened up a CommerceOnline account. They offer all the OFX functionality that I CRAVE. They have FULL QUICKEN and MONEY compatibility. Everything is free and they have drive through locations by me. You might want to check it out. PNC would not allow me to open up the account since I am a NY resident and they couldn't tie my VOIP to my home address.
ALL OF YOU ARE RIGHT
I don't know what I was forcing myself to accept all this.
Netbank even overcharged me a fee for account maintenance they stated that it is due to the minimum balance of 2500.00 not met.
I was shocked and complained because I was never charged before for minimum balance. Gee I was just starting to get used to NETBANK as I opened the account just a few months ago; starting small to grow like some of you guys out there.
They refused to return me the maintenance fee and of course I went on ING to open the electric checking myself (as an old ING saving's account holder it was faster)
When I setup my account to my surprised I was only eligible for $25.00 OVERDRAFT PROTECTION due to some discrepencies (old junk) showing on my credit report.. wow NETBANK and a few others covered me for 1000.00 before so suddenly I feel taken advantage of by this system.
Bank of Internet seems equivalent to the old Netbank
I was a happy Netbank customer for over 2 years and I had a ING Direct Savings account as well.
I've moved over to http://www.bankofinternet.com because ING Electric Orange is not equivalent to a Netbank checking account.
Bank Of Internet does not allow opening of a new account without depositing a paper check from a existing account so you can move your account over to them as long as Netbank is clearing checks. Afterwards your out of luck but perhaps with all the Netbank refugees they might reconsider this policy.
I hope this helps.
ING is losing my business over this
I've been with Netbank since they were Compubank (and more or less the only game in down with decent online banking at the time). Probably close to 10 years.
I got the notice today about the fact that they are cutting off my ATM card in the middle of a long holiday weekend. When I talked to the indifferent customer assistance folks, they said there was nothing to be done about that and assured me this was not my first notice.
Lo and behold, I looked back at the 10/30 email -- which was a sales pitch for the savings account -- and discover that at the bottom of a 400-word item, outside the text box, there is a mention of the ATM issue.
Hardly a good way to call this to your customers' attention.
Moreover, I asked whether I would continue to have the option to choose a plain ATM card over a debit card -- something I much prever for security reasons, and have always been able to get from any bank or credit union I've worked with. Not here.
Will be looking to take my business elsewhere. These guys are really making a hash of this.
I wouldn't even think about touching ING with a ten foot pole.
I never heard of a sloppier mess in my life worse than ING! Why does ING *have* to give you overdraft? What if I don't want or need it? Just a poor excuse to pull your credit history? Making dirty $$$ off the overdraft fees? I just opened a checking account with a local bank and moved my money out. This local bank lets you optout of overdraft on the application, and no credit check is required. Just show some ID and proof of residency and income, and you're approved. In about a week my new debit card arrived in the mail and I don't have to put up with ING's sloppyness anymore and I'm done with this ING mess. And my savings CD money went out to another online savings bank. Not ING.
ING closed my checking account with 2 business days notice
The day before Thanksgiving I received a letter in the mail saying that my checking account was the type that ING does not offer (3 names on the account) and it would be closed on Nov 26th -- 2 business days later. Because I had a business trip to London and would be leaving on Saturday, I had one day to try to fix this issue which is impossible.
First, several payments I had in process could not be stopped in time. They had already hit the credit card account, but had not cleared the checking account. They all bounced and ING (and the credit card issuers) all charged me NSF fees. Second, I opened a new checking account on Friday, but the check I wrote didn't clear for 6 business days so I had no way to pay for my mortgage, car payment, electric bill, etc. I still don't have any checks for the new account.
Today I had two separate credit cards declined. One of the card issuers (Citibank) refused to allow me to set up the new checking account or take my payment by phone. They are requiring that I send the payment by mail. I can't believe what this will do to my credit and I've spent hours (so far) trying to reschedule all the payments, talking on the phone to explain what happened and fill out forms to switch accounts.
Who ever heard of an account with 3 names being a mortal crime. Plus, who ever dreamed up giving a customer 2 days notice to shut down their account. Happy Thanksgiving! I am looking for others affected by this, so we can file a class action against ING. The way they have handled the conversion and the loss of features was very frustrating, but to go this far is totally unacceptable.
Class Action
I would love to be involved in a Class Action Suit....You have no idea how much stress this has put on me....Not being able to get my money out, them charging and causing fees on their account, along with my New Local Bank Account, not being able to verify how much money should have been transfered into the ING account, which is short by my records....and the embarrasment of having to borrow money from friends..This is the worst trasaction I have ever been through!
You can e-mail me at tamraeh@yahoo.com
I have been a Netbank
I have been a Netbank customer for about 7 years, and am currently going troughh the "transition" to ING. I quoted the word transition, because while ING calls the process a transition, its really more like "were closing your accounts, deactivation your debit card, and heres how to open an account with ING". A transition would be more along the lines of just switcing my accounts over to ING and sending me a new debit card.
I received an email the week of Thanksgiving informing me that my debit card would be deactived in a few days. I frantically, withdrew as much cas as I could, so I wouldnt starve to death and/or max out my credit cards for everyday expenses. The week following Tanksgiving, a payceck was direct depositioed into my Netbank account, so I went into my new Electric Orange account and submitted a transfer, from Netbank to ING. For some reason, transfers take about 4 business days to complete, and during that time an automated payment for 13 dollars hit my netbank account, causing the transfer to be returned NSF, for which I was dinged a $30 fee.
I then initiated another transfer, for a lessr amount and considered the issue resolved. This morning (Monday, Dec 3rd) I receive an email informing me of the failed transfer, and that my accounts have been frozen for a periond of 3-4 business days pending an investigation. This means that my second transfer will not be processed tis week, and I will also not have access to any cash until Friday (I guess), or later. We are now approaching 3 weeks that I will be unable to witdraw cash, or pay bills from my checking account. I already have several late bills, have incurred late fees and will likely get dings on my credit report..
Oh, and another thing. When
Oh, and another thing. When trying to resolve issues between Netbank and ING, you cant call one or the other...you have to call ING, or Netbank, se how far you get with whomever you called, then they say "Im with ING, I dont ave access to Netbank Information, you will need to call them". Then you call Netbank, and go from there.....until they hit a wall and send you back over to ING, where you get a new person, and have to explain the entire situation again (to some guy in India who learned English from the back of a cereal box).
This is terrible, the past couple weeks have been a nightmare, and it looks like the next couple weeks will also suck. I have christmas shopping to do, plane tickets to buy, oh yeah, and I need to EAT.
ING is forcing me to consider asking my family/friends for money during Christmas. Awesome.
I'm really mad!
Thanks for this website! Apparently, I'm not the only person having problems with ING's acquisition of NetBank. I'm planning to file a lawsuit against them if they don't comply with my demands.
Here is an email I sent to ING regarding my NetBank account.
I am writing regarding problems I have had with ING’s “transitioning” of my Netbank account into a new ING account.
I received no prior notice that ING was acquiring NetBank’s accounts. I learned of ING’s acquisition of NetBank while accessing my NetBank account through the internet. ING had posted a “welcome” to NetBank’s customers on NetBank’s website.
ING did nothing to assure NetBank customers that they would have access to their money or to inform them of their intentions with regard to their accounts. ING simply sent emails to NetBank customers informing them that their ATM debit/Visa cards would be terminated on November 7, 2007, without any indication that they would receive replacement ING debit cards. IN FACT, ING DID NOT SEND REPLACEMENT CARDS FOR NETBANK CUSTOMERS. Since NetBank is an internet bank, terminating the debit cards left customers without access to cash. I immediately withdrew money from my NetBank account to make sure that I would not be left without cash. I never received a replacement card for an ING account.
Having withdrawn money from my NetBank account, I overlooked a payment I initiated 5 days earlier to the power company, which was rejected. ING charged me an overdraft fee of $30.00, which should be refunded to me immediately.
Today I have found that I have been charged an additional $90 in late fees - 2 of which are for transfers that should be made to my ING savings accounts. I have three ING savings accounts that I opened years before ING acquired NetBank.
I was advised by an ING customer support person to open a new ING checking account to avoid problems with my old NetBank account, since the transitioning was not going well. Since I already have three savings accounts with ING and I have been satisfied with the service I’ve received for those accounts, I decided to open a new checking account with ING as well, as I was advised.
I notified my payroll institution of my new ING checking account information early, but I received a paper check for my wages ending November 30, 2007. I was not expecting the paper check and receiving it presented a uge problem for me.
My mortgage payment has been directly debited from my NetBank checking account for years, but I have no way of making that payment by the due date this month, since my mortgage company told me that it was already in process and that I could not change my banking information until the payment is processed. Of course, since they attempted to debit that payment from my NetBank account, it has been rejected by ING and I have been charged a fee for insufficient funds by ING and I will probably receive a fee for a rejected mortgage payment by my mortgage company. I have NEVER been late paying my mortgage payment, but thanks to ING, I will be for the first time.
When I learned of ING’s acquisition of NetBank, I expected a seamless transition that would allow me to continue using my account without problems. I have used banks that have been acquired by other banks and I have never had this problem. I am very disappointed with ING. If ING expects to keep me as a customer, they will pay any and all late fees, overdraft fees, and returned check fees for any transaction related to my NetBank account since their acquisition of my account. Also, if my mortgage company charges me for insufficient funds this month, I expect to be reimbursed for that amount.
ING should reimburse me IMMEDIATELY for the $120 overdraft fees charged to my NetBank account.
This is the biggest mess I have ever seen. If ING does not reimburse my account and send me the remaining balance by check, I will file a lawsuit against your company and close all my ING accounts. Additionally, I will contact all government agencies governing banks to inform them of my experience.
I have never had to send a letter like this and I am very upset that I should have to. I have been holding on the phone for an ING representative for 15 minutes now. I am very angry.
I am going to send a copy of this message via Certified Mail. If I do not receive a response within 3 days, I will proceed with filing a lawsuit.
Netbank Alternatives
I've only been a netbank business checking customer for about 6 months. I live in a rural area and have an online business where customers occasionally send me checks. I just popped them in an envelope and sent them to netbank. I never even ordered any business checks since I didn't need them.
so ING emails me saying I need to send them a Voided Check with my business name preprinted on it.... well that's impossible for me, unless I order new checks, which is pretty silly considering the checks can't be used anyways!
Then I find out INGdirect is converting my account to a business savings account and will not accept checks via the mail. So I think once I get my PIN in the mail, I will close my account and have them send me the balance in my account.
So, what banks offer business checking where I can mail in my deposits? Or support ATM deposit at almost every ATM?
Scwab?
CommerceOnline?
PNC?
any more?
thanks in advance!
Mail in checks
PNC does allow mail in checks, although I had to email them to find the addresses!
But there is another possible option if you want to go this route: Get a local account just for depositing checks, and use the transfer funds function of you real new bank to get the funds into your real account.
We recently did this as the University where we work refuses to do direct deposit until they do a test run, which they will only do on payday. As such the first payday after you change account you get a paper check in the mail rather than direct deposit. Since my wife already had a local account just for paying off a weird credit card through the University, we set up PNC to do transfers from that checking account. So we can deposit check in that account (which is with La Capital), and then move the funds into PNC.
Of course this adds 3 business days in addition to the time it takes the check to clear, so depending on how flexible your business cashflow is this may not be a solution at all, however I have found that it would take about 3 days for a check to arrive at Netbank back in the day anyway.
Remote Deposits
Another option, I am considering is remote deposits. PNC is offering a free check scanner for use with business checking accounts...now that is slick. Just connect to your PC and scan away. But, of course, PNC is not currently offering business checking accounts in North Carolina. Schwab doesn't appear to offer business accounts. CommerceOnline looks like they offer remote deposit and they have a very nice interface...so I will check them out a little more closely now and let you all know.
I don't really like the notion in this day and age that I need two accounts to accomplish a simple task...but in the end, I might have to consider it! thanks!
ING Direct customer dis-service
After having my ATM cards deactivated on Black Friday and the bill-pay and Netbank website go away on December 7, I was stuck with very few dollars left in my original Netbank accounts. I had opened up several other accounts and was moving money around as fast as possible because there was no way I wanted any part of ING Direct.
I received 3 big packages from ING direct on December 8, the day after the last vestiges of Netbank went away. There were 3 different account numbers. I also received a letter on the same day for two of the of the account numbers that said there was a problem setting up the account and that I needed to call right away to complete the account setup. To try to shorten the story, when I called they said that I needed a PIN number. I should expect to get it in the mail within the next few days. Reality check, they have completely frozen me out of my accounts and now they tell me that I need to wait for the PIN to arrive in the mail right in the Christmas mailing season. I told the agent that I didn't want a PIN, I wanted to close the account and have them send me a check. They said that I couldn't do that without the PIN!?!!! They also started asking me a bunch of questions, home phone number, SSN, etc. When they got to my birthday, I asked what this was for. I wanted to close the account and I didn't want them to have a bunch of personal information on me. They said they would need this information in order to close the account. By this time, I started to feel that I had fallen into a rabbit-hole. I asked what would happen if I didn't give them the information and I was politely informed that after 30 days they would send a check. "Works for me," I responded before slamming down the phone.
I guess I got spoiled with some changes in other financial service companies. When Datek was converted to Ameritrade, everything was smooth. I kept my same account number and passwords. The website changed one day but other than that, everything worked. They even brought across all of the Datek features like the streamer. The same thing happened with my Brown account being transferred to eTrade. This stuff can be done it you have a customer-focused culture in the company. Netbank to ING Direct is hands down the worst business transition that I have ever been involved in.
I WILL NEVER DEAL WITH ING AGAIN
I too received the e-mail on Nov. 20, telling me that my NetBank Debit card would no longer work after the 22nd..Imagine my fear, since all my checks are direct deposit and my check along with my weekly child support would be going into this account on the 23rd. I called them and they told me I had been sent a previous e-mail telling me this, which I did not believe...They also told me I had a savings account with them from years ago, but of course I could not remember the security questions or my pin#. So they sent me out a new pin number...Everyone I have talked to at ING has acted clueless. I went back into my e-mails and did find a e-mail from them, that was about opening up a Savings Account and all the benifits, of having one this information was surrounded with a large orange boarder...But to my surprise the small print under that did tell of the debit cards not working.
So all of the information that I got and the way I read it, I had a checking account it would be converted to a checking account...But I was not going to go through all of this again and went and open a account up with a local bank and wrote a check from my Netbank account as the initial deposit, which was fine because I was informed that checks would still be accepted. I was able to get my employment check direct deposit changed right aways for my new local bank, but it would take a little while for my child support checks to make the change due to the fact that I had to send the information to the state...But I had no worries, I just wrote a check from my NetBank account and deposited into my new local bank account...So imagine my surprise when I had a returned check into my new local account for one of my deposites...So right away I called ING, I spoke with two different people that did not seem to know what was going on...But I was told that the reasonmy check had been returned was because, since I had a Savings account with ING from years ago, my money was trasfered into that account rather then them opening a checking account for me...So I have no way to get my money out of this account...but upon reading further I have, I would have to change my child support checks to be direct desposit to the new ING account, otherwise they would not be put into my account...So the money that should have been into this account is not, but that information was not available until after the Dec. 7th change....So now this has envolved the State and it will take me months to get those checks..
And my account is about 100.00 short of what it should be, but I have no way of proving that because the NETBANK website is no longer up and running, which you would think would be against the law...and did you notice that none of the letters mailed to you were not dated and there was know postmark?I WILL NEVER DEAL WITH ING AGAIN AND I WILL TELL EVERYONE I KNOW!
Netbank Account History
I have already moved my money to Commerce Bank, but I have another problem that some of you may have faced. Since I was not receiving NetBank statements in the mail, I have no account history. I need to have this years account history to verify information for my taxes and for personal records, etc. ING told me that they have all of the Netbank account history, but would not provide it to me unless it was a request from the IRS or was supeanaed for a lawsuit. They gave me the email address for their legal department. In other words, they sent me in to outerspace as I will never hear back from them on this. Their excuse was that they didn't really buy Netbank, they were assigned their accounts and that Netbank left things in disarray. I am sure any bank would be very pleased to "inherit" huge assets without having to pay for them, so that is no excuse in my book. Why can't they simply leave the Netbank website up a little longer until the whole process is flushed out. I assumed I would get a complete year end report or something. It sounds like we won't get anything to verify if our balances were correct or if anything was lost or stolen. If anyone has been successful, post December 7th, obtaining their NetBank account history from ING for more than the last couple months, please let me know.
Boy, that really sucks. I
Boy, that really sucks. I didn't even think of that. I'm personally in a good position as for some reason about a year ago I started downloading the PDF versions of my statements when they were ready every month. I'm really lucky I decided to do that.
As far as ING 'getting assigned' the Netbank accounts, I believe there was some money involved for getting 'assigned.' Although I'll have to do some digging and see if I can find the reference to it. I'm pretty sure I saw a dollar figure of some sort for ING to take over the Netbank accounts.
I'm having the exact same
I'm having the exact same problem. I spoke with ING and apparently NetBank promised them that they would be sending a year-end paper statement to all of their previous customers by the end of the year or within the first two weeks. We'll see how that pans out.
ING Account setup problems
I am having a horrid time with ING. I'm also an ex-NetBank customer (one of the first, over 10 years). Anyway, they've completely screwed up the whole account setup process. It's been over a month since my wife and I set up the accounts, to this day we still cannot get the PIN/Customer Numbers to work online, in oder to confirm the "small quantity transferred" and get things moving.
It took me 4 weeks to get a PIN that worked, my wife is still on her first PIN, but there are now two Customer numbers. She has tried twice to get her account cleared, either the phone system won't take the PIN with the Customer number she is supposed to use, or else the website won;t take the PIN/Customer number pair. The CSRs can't tell us whether a new PIN has been generated, why there are two Customer numbers, or whether a new one would even be guaranteed to fix this. They apparently have no control over the office that issues the PINs. I took me 4 weeks and two telephone calls to finally get a PIN that worked, wife has now asked at least once for anew PIN, no confirmation that it has ever been sent. They want to send yet another PIN but can't confirm which customer number it would be matched with!
I finally got frustrated and asked to have the account closed. Even that is going to take a lot of time according to the CSR. Be careful with this bank, they don't seem to have good control of their system.
ING Account setup problems
I am having a horrid time with ING. I'm also an ex-NetBank customer (one of the first, over 10 years). Anyway, ING has completely screwed up the whole account setup process. It's been over a month since my wife and I set up the accounts, the web application ING uses to setup new accounts malfunctioned while I was setting up the accounts and I was never able to generate PIN numbers. I had to call twice to get my PIN number sent, to this day we still cannot get my wife's PIN/Customer Numbers to work online, in oder to confirm the "small quantity transferred" and get things moving.
It took me 4 weeks to get a PIN that worked, my wife is still on her first PIN, but there are now two Customer numbers. She has tried twice to get her account cleared, either the phone system won't take the PIN with the Customer number she is supposed to use, or else the website won't take the PIN/Customer number pair. The CSRs can't tell us whether a new PIN has been generated, why there are two Customer numbers, or whether a new one would even be guaranteed to fix this. They apparently have no control over the office that issues the PINs. I took me 4 weeks and two telephone calls to finally get a PIN that worked, wife has now asked at least once for an original PIN and once for a new one, no confirmation from the CSR that a new one (which was promised) has ever been sent. They want to send yet another PIN but can't tell us which customer number it would be matched with! They can't even explain why the wife has 2 customer numbers!!
I finally got frustrated and asked to have the account closed and our money sent to our address on record (we've been at the same address for 3 years with NetBank...). Even that is going to take a lot of time according to the CSR. It has to go to the legal department...still not verified....wife needs to verify...I couldn't get the CSR or her supervisor to understand that she has tried TWICE to confirm the account unsuccessfully PERFECTLY following ING directions.
Be careful with this bank, they don't seem to have control of their system, and the CSRs have several times told me lies just to shut me up. One told me I would have full account access while the wife's (3rd??) PIN was being sent (not true, I have completed "confirmation" procedures and still have no access), another CSR told me that the online system generates PINs on the very first page, and therefore it must be my fault for not writing it down (not true; PINs are generated on the very last page of the online setup process).
I wish NetBank were back....
Suggest Filing FDIC Complaint
All,
Here are some of my complaints as I filed them online to the FDIC. I suggest you all do the same at https://www2.fdic.gov/starsmail/index.asp but stick to the facts of the transition/conversion.
1. ING Direct will not providing or make available NetBank account histories and records to former NetBank account holders, as indicated on FDIC web site. Reference: http://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/netbank.html
2. ING Direct did not disclose that NetBank account histories or records would not be available to former NetBank customers prior to conversion to ING Direct accounts.
3. ING Direct did not disclose prior to conversion that routing numbers and account numbers would change once the conversion to ING Direct accounts took place.
4. ING Direct did not disclose to former NetBank customers that their online bill payment information and schedules would not be transferred to ING Direct online bill pay system before the conversion occurred. Vitally important because ING Direct does not offer paper check capability.
5. ING Direct is not/has not made the old NetBank online system available to former NetBank customers after the conversion to ING Direct to ensure all deposits transferred accurately. Access to old NetBank account information, in a read only format, is required to monitor/audit account conversions processes and allow the retrieval of old account histories for archiving.
6. ING Direct did not open new accounts, provide access to those new accounts, send out new ATM Debit cards and PINS prior to the conversion taking place. Former NetBank customers were/are unable to access their accounts and funds once the transfer of funds took place on 8 Dec 2007 because it was not provided in advance.
In the FDIC Failed Bank Information, NetBank, Alpharetta, GA, Closing Information announcement.
The FDIC indicates 'All your deposit account histories and records will be transferred to your assuming institution. If ING DIRECT requires any additional signatures or forms, it will notify you. If you have any questions or special requests, you may contact a representative of ING DIRECT at 1-888-256-6932'
Since I was not receiving paper NetBank statements by mail, I have no account histories, other then what was online at NetBank. I have years of accounts history stored safely and securely stored online with NetBank. When I called ING Direct to request all my NetBank account histories, because they were not made available in my ING Direct account. I was told that my NetBank account histories would not be provided unless it was a request from the IRS or was subpoenaed in a lawsuit. This includes requests from account owners, former NetBank customers. ING Direct indicate that a third party may actually have all the NetBank account histories. I asked, who could I speak with at ING Direct to discuss this further. I was asked to call back during normal business hours and contact the Operations Department to discuss where my account histories are located. ING Direct indicated they would provide a few months of NetBank account histories but only if requested, which I did.
**** This info did not make it in my complaint to the FDIC****
Prior to the conversion I called ING Direct in an attempt to clarify many of the issues listed above. At that time I was told a Welcome Kit will soon arrive and all answer my questions. The welcome kit did not address any of my concerns.
It is now the 18th of Dec and I just received my ATM Debit today but I have no PIN to access my funds, with only three dollars left in my pocket. I call ING Direct on the 17th to inquire where my ATM Debit was since they indicated that's the last day I should have received it according to the posted timeline. ING Direct informed me over the phone they had experienced some delays with the issuing of ATM debit card, but fail to let anybody know of the delay.
I have the same exact
I have the same exact problem and I think there were duplicate transacitions debited to my account. I am asking ING to submit my account transaction for the past one month and they said they cannot do that without a court order. This is ridiculous. I have already complained to ING ombudsman but haven't heard anything back.
I will also complain to FDIC using the link you provided.
Horror Story
Here is one you guys will love. ING sent all my information to my physical address which I do not receive mail from. I have all my information listed correctly with Netbank but they apparently never checked it. Seeing this could be an issue I called ING on the 5th of Dec. to make sure that all my mail from them was sent to my mailing address. They still sent my pin to the physical address which prompted a return to sender. When I asked them why they sent the mail there they asked me why cant I get mail where they sent it to. That is not their concern. I told them where to send it and they didnt do it. What bothers me is that all this information was on file with Netbank for years. So long story short my direct deposit rolled over to this new account I cant access so no money over Christmas. They would not give me the info to log into this account without the pin. I am so screwed and they dont care. I went to washington mutual and they have been pretty good so far. Once I get my direct deposit setup with WAMU I am dumping ING asap. I cant imagine why a netbank customer would want to use this outfit. They suck hard
FDIC Complaint
Well, after several calls with ING people giving me incorrect, incomplete, or conflicting information, I finally sent a complaint to the FDIC. I did get a swift response back from them, and a boilerplate, "Oh this has been so hard on us" response from ING Direct Customer Satisfaction. According to the note from ING, their "...goal is to make the NetBank / ING DIRECT transition as seamless as possible." Well, how is that working out for everyone? Another tidbit from the e-mail- the reason that I haven't gotten my money from them yet is "Due to an overwhelming amount of account closure requests."
The FDIC recommended that I also write to the Office of Thrift Supervision, who regulates ING Direct.
Office of Thrift Supervision
Harborside Financial Center
Plaza Five, 16th Floor
Jersey City, NJ 07311.
(800) 253-2181
(201) 413-7541 (facsimile)
www.ots.treas.gov
I wrote a long missive but I wasn't very complementary about poor old ING.
I outlined in my letter how I receive PIN numbers that don't work, talk to agents who don't know anything and all the while have to wait to get funds from them that they can't even confirm have ever been sent. Hopefully I'm just about out of it, but I feel sorry for all of you who are still caught in the sh**-blizzard.
Wait till you hear this.....
I am having to fight criminal prosecution for a check written on my NetBank account that was returned as CLOSED when this disaster hit. I didn't even know NetBank had closed or had been acquired by ING until late November and I have been in a panic ever since.
I'm just sick about this....
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